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Post by igiveup on Nov 22, 2011 1:37:51 GMT -5
I honestly give up on figuring out how this market thing works. I have a CV that I think is pretty strong teaching wise (teaching award, etc.). I applied to a bunch of local teaching schools because I wanted to stay in the area. On a whim I also applied to a distant r1. So in the past ten days I've seen all these teaching schools that I though would be perfect for me move on and pick someone else. And then I got a call for an interview to this distant R1. Now, don't get me wrong, I am happy about the interview and I am certainly glad I have it. People certainly are impressed by it. But what I really want are these local schools that are moving on without me.
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Post by same on Nov 22, 2011 9:58:17 GMT -5
Same thing just happened to me!
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rrr
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Post by rrr on Nov 22, 2011 10:01:21 GMT -5
^^ Logically, if you are in a city with a couple of good programs, the market is probably very saturated for people like you, who want to stay in the area, so even if places won't "hire their own" they still have a good selection. Think NYC, Boston, etc.
Whereas your relative chances are probably higher in a city that only has one university with a good PhD program in soc. (Esp. if they won't hire their own students.)
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Post by igiveup on Nov 22, 2011 10:09:37 GMT -5
^^ Logically, if you are in a city with a couple of good programs, the market is probably very saturated for people like you, who want to stay in the area, so even if places won't "hire their own" they still have a good selection. Think NYC, Boston, etc. Whereas your relative chances are probably higher in a city that only has one university with a good PhD program in soc. (Esp. if they won't hire their own students.) But I am not in a city like that. I am neither in california or on the northeast. And by local I mean within a 4 hour range of here, including very rural towns, while the r1 is in a big city.
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Post by same on Nov 22, 2011 10:27:56 GMT -5
Yes! Same again for me too!
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Post by baya on Jan 18, 2012 13:05:09 GMT -5
Big suckola is when you realize you have missed the deadlines for 5 or 6 jobs because you've been too depressed to even think about the job market after a steady string of rejections. Top program? Check. Top postdoc? Check. Nothing, nothing, nothing? Check. Bleh.
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Post by flummoxia on Jan 19, 2012 8:40:13 GMT -5
I honestly give up on figuring out how this market thing works. I have a CV that I think is pretty strong teaching wise (teaching award, etc.). I applied to a bunch of local teaching schools because I wanted to stay in the area. On a whim I also applied to a distant r1. So in the past ten days I've seen all these teaching schools that I though would be perfect for me move on and pick someone else. And then I got a call for an interview to this distant R1. Now, don't get me wrong, I am happy about the interview and I am certainly glad I have it. People certainly are impressed by it. But what I really want are these local schools that are moving on without me. I understand. Having been on both sides of the hiring fence, there is so much randomness in the process. Departments often change their perceived need on the fly. Networks obviously matter. I've seen a weird groupthink emerge among committees. When there are so many good candidates available, it's easy to come up with somewhat arbitrary reasons for excluding people. One could just as easily come up with a slew of other reasons for excluding another batch of candidates. I am fortunate to have a job. I applied for what looked like my dream job this year. It would have a step down in terms of pay and prestige, but it is exactly what I want. Friends told me that the ad looked like it was written for me. I didn't get an interview. The job went to a person who didn't fit the ad at all. It is frustrating, but it happens. Good luck to everyone!
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ok
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Post by ok on Jan 19, 2012 9:44:12 GMT -5
Remember people - the randomness also means you need to apply your statistical thinking and apply to more jobs than you feel comfortable, because of that randomness and residual error term. Who knows if you will be the person who causes them to change their minds on the fly, and hire you when you didn't fit the job ad perfectly. Ask people in your department who got jobs how many applications they sent out, to what kinds of schools, and in which areas. It will make your expected number of applications more realistic.
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Post by agree on Jan 19, 2012 12:06:38 GMT -5
I agree with ok. I know someone that was hired for a position last year that wasn't the "best" fit for a certain position. The primary area they were hiring for was related to one of the areas my friend does (not directly), but the SC seemed to take notice of the related area. Supposedly, this year on the SC, this person has been seeing a lot of applications that look like they'd be a better fit for last year's position than my friend. Similar thing happened when I was a grad student - a strat person got hired to do race for my grad department. Though there is overlap between the areas, there are important differences between the types of scholars that claim to do strat versus race. It's important to apply yourself broadly (stretch but don't lie) because of the randomness on the job market.
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ok
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Post by ok on Jan 19, 2012 13:03:08 GMT -5
^ Obviously your friend was the best for some reason. But such is the mysterious issue of "fit."
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fit isnt same as fits the ad
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Post by fit isnt same as fits the ad on Jan 19, 2012 14:39:11 GMT -5
The people who write the ad aren't necessarily the people who read your application. The people who read your application at first aren't necessarily the people who decide on interviewees.
If you like a department and think you'd want to work there--apply. If you wouldn't be willing to work somewhere, even if you fit the ad, don't apply. The ad is useful, most of the time, to help you in tailoring your letter. Unless it's an inter-disciplinary or special ad. Then you might have a case that fitting the ad matters.
But the only way you get the job is if you apply. If you don't, then I can 100% promise you, you won't get the job.
From watching a hire happen that emphasized race, there were members of the search committee who didn't know the field of scholarship at all and thought strat + race were close enough fields to count. In this case, the race scholar was the chair, so s/he was able to stymie that, but if s/he weren't there, the committee likely would have brought at least one "strat" person for interviews. And, at the departmental level, the strat person probably would have won the vote, as a large segment of this particular department believes it already has enough race scholars and not enough strat people.
That's not a flaw--there aren't enough race scholars in the department for them to populate an entire search committee. It's reality.
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ok
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Post by ok on Jan 19, 2012 15:59:56 GMT -5
Oh man, good point about the group interactions and randomness.
Also, for those of you who worry about how it looks, don't worry too much. You might have seen people on the chronicle b*chin' about how this random person applied or that one applied, but that's not the norm. If your application is totally wrong, it's easy to toss, and they probably won't remember it at all if you were in the ballpark and out at the first or second cut.
Well, unless you were the random retired dude applying without a PhD or something of that nature. But a solid PhD or ABD in a related area? It is unlikely that anyone will remember it if you weren't on the short list.
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