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Post by daf on Oct 13, 2023 10:07:21 GMT -5
Thank you for the kind words. I graduated right when COVID started and it's been an awful 3 years on the academic job market. I keep getting close, but still no offers for TT jobs. I'm so tired of the randomness and uncertainty. I think this is my last year on the academic market. I am now the same boat. Shortlisted 5 times in the past covid years but no offer. I am about to collapse...
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Post by :( on Oct 13, 2023 14:03:55 GMT -5
Another Friday, another week with no good news - another reason to re-read this post and carry on.
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alt ac is viable alt
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Post by alt ac is viable alt on Oct 15, 2023 0:04:30 GMT -5
At a certain point you have to swallow the sunk costs and move on. I personally wouldn't continue after applying 3 years in a row without having received a single offer. That suggests to me there's a mismatch between your application and the kinds of jobs you're applying for, or something else is just not working (weird personality?).
I applied 3 years in a row, but in the second year I got two offers from R2s and decided I could do a little better. My third year I got a couple R2 and R1 offers, ended up at a low ranked R1 that nonetheless is a 2-2 with research support. Yes I was lucky, but I also worked really hard to build my record and my applications, and I was always ready to go alt-ac because the reality is that alt-ac is better than academia in many ways. It was only after I really accepted alt ac that the offers started coming, probably because I had a less overly stressed personality in interviews.
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You Matter
Oct 16, 2023 11:33:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by off on Oct 16, 2023 11:33:20 GMT -5
At a certain point you have to swallow the sunk costs and move on. I personally wouldn't continue after applying 3 years in a row without having received a single offer. That suggests to me there's a mismatch between your application and the kinds of jobs you're applying for, or something else is just not working (weird personality?). I applied 3 years in a row, but in the second year I got two offers from R2s and decided I could do a little better. My third year I got a couple R2 and R1 offers, ended up at a low ranked R1 that nonetheless is a 2-2 with research support. Yes I was lucky, but I also worked really hard to build my record and my applications, and I was always ready to go alt-ac because the reality is that alt-ac is better than academia in many ways. It was only after I really accepted alt ac that the offers started coming, probably because I had a less overly stressed personality in interviews. well most candidates landed on a job by a single offer rarher than one of those multiple offers.
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Post by Keep breathing on Oct 20, 2023 9:40:36 GMT -5
I have never better understood what it means when people say that “the silence is deafening.” Dozens of job applications, a couple of explicit rejections, not a peep otherwise. I struggle to focus on anything else. I am paralyzed by the lack of information. All I can do is wait and refresh my email, ever convinced that there is no hope. I refresh anyway. Sound familiar? You are still not alone. This is what many of us are going through. It’s agonizing, but I hope that solidarity proves a partial salve. It’s good to recognize and register these feelings. Fighting them often only strengthens them. Working towards understanding may help—and in the process you may find new compassion for yourself. As you work towards that understanding, I want to remind you: You matter. Your worth is not determined by your success on the job market/professional record. The value and importance of your work is not determined by your success in the job market. You are demonstrating incredible tenacity and persistence by engaging this process. You are not letting anyone down. Your loved ones care more about your emotional and mental health than they do about your professional success—even if that doesn’t always come through. Many of your peers—count me among them—care more about your emotional and mental health than about your professional success. I want to share some mental health resources I have found, but before I do, if you are experiencing a mental health crisis, know that the National Alliance on Mental Illness has a 24/7 Hotline for Mental Health Crises and Suicide Prevention. It can be reached in most places by dialing 988 and anywhere else you can dial 1-800-273-TALK (8255). A couple of other resources: --These are not replacements for a therapist. I regularly see a therapist, but I find these to be helpful supplements—useful in their own ways.-- Warmlines: screening.mhanational.org/content/need-talk-someone-warmlines/?layout=actions_ah_articles,actions_ah_test “A warmline is a phone number you call to have a conversation with someone who can provide support during hard times. Whether you’re in crisis or just need someone to talk to, a warmline can help. Warmlines are staffed by trained peers who have been through their own mental health struggles and know what it’s like to need help.” Kind words: store.steampowered.com/app/1070710/Kind_Words_lo_fi_chill_beats_to_write_to/A game about writing and receiving kind words from real people. Describe what’s stressing you out and people from around the world will respond with kind words. I find this dually therapeutic—both writing and receiving kind words makes me feel better. It does cost $5ish—but that keeps the bots and trolls away. If you have other resources, I would love to learn about them. In sum, you matter more than the job market, even at the best of times, could ever appreciate. You are multi-faceted and complex in ways that your application materials could never convey. Despite all the signals to the contrary, the job market process is not about evaluating your personal, or even professional, worth. It’s about departmental committees working to solve local and idiosyncratic practical problems against a backdrop of common-sense assumptions about what types of work are important, relevant, and fitting. Keep breathing, An internet stranger who still cares about your emotional and mental health.
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Post by idk on Oct 20, 2023 12:54:30 GMT -5
At a certain point you have to swallow the sunk costs and move on. I personally wouldn't continue after applying 3 years in a row without having received a single offer. That suggests to me there's a mismatch between your application and the kinds of jobs you're applying for, or something else is just not working (weird personality?). I applied 3 years in a row, but in the second year I got two offers from R2s and decided I could do a little better. My third year I got a couple R2 and R1 offers, ended up at a low ranked R1 that nonetheless is a 2-2 with research support. Yes I was lucky, but I also worked really hard to build my record and my applications, and I was always ready to go alt-ac because the reality is that alt-ac is better than academia in many ways. It was only after I really accepted alt ac that the offers started coming, probably because I had a less overly stressed personality in interviews. The last few years have been weird with COVID. I wouldnt say something is wrong with your application if you havent gotten an offer if you are also getting campus visits. It's just very competitive and they only have 1 spot. If you really want a job in academia, it does mean you have to apply broadly and to many different types of schools though. If someone is only applying to a handful of R1s and not quite getting offers then they should probably apply to R1s all over and R2s if they really want to be a prof.
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Post by bump on Oct 20, 2023 20:22:55 GMT -5
Agreed. This is a more reasonable response than "3-year no offer means mismatch between candidate and the market". The recent 3 years are not normal. Covid swallows many job opportunities.
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You Matter
Oct 25, 2023 22:03:16 GMT -5
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Post by Sad on Oct 25, 2023 22:03:16 GMT -5
It seems like lots of folks are giving up on the academic job market?
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You Matter
Oct 27, 2023 10:29:16 GMT -5
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Post by Numbers on Oct 27, 2023 10:29:16 GMT -5
It seems like lots of folks are giving up on the academic job market? I haven't seen the numbers recently but my general understanding is there are more people completing phds at the top 50 ranked schools each year then there are job openings each year. So some percent of people will not get academic jobs. The individual question is when is the right time to consider government or industry jobs. I wouldn't take this message board as representative of the decisions people are making towards the job market.
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Post by yes on Oct 29, 2023 10:38:50 GMT -5
There are more and more PhDs each year and the increase in professor jobs does not increase nearly at the same rate. There is less of a stigma and more resources for industry jobs. In many ways, they are better too. each has pros and cons
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You Matter
Oct 30, 2023 13:05:51 GMT -5
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Post by Meditation on Oct 30, 2023 13:05:51 GMT -5
Take a deep breath. Getting an academic job is one of the most difficult things to do. Most of the jobs are wonderful, but getting placed is no small feat.
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Post by How do you cope? on Oct 31, 2023 9:31:50 GMT -5
How do you cope with seeing your colleagues get multiple interviews while no one even asked for your references at any point? I'm not envious, just feeling defeated. If I was any good at it, someone would have at least considered me, right? And yes, the job market is bad, but at least others' applications are being noticed, just not mine. What are the chances things will get any different next month, or at any point of this ✨ JoUrNeY ✨?
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Post by also defeated on Oct 31, 2023 10:47:56 GMT -5
I don't have any advice for coping but I am in the exact same boat, so, solidarity at least? Other colleagues on the job market at the same time as me have interviews and even one fly out. Me? Nothing.
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Post by early on Oct 31, 2023 11:02:50 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat - no interviews, very little signs of interest. But it's still early in the process. As much as we all (myself included) wish we were one of the lucky ones who gets an early flyout and an offer before the new year, most committees are slow and inefficient, and a lot of places probably won't interview until after the holidays. And then there will be some movement again in the winter/spring after first rounds fail and committees go back to the applicant pool. I know multiple successful, tenured faculty who were second-round hires for their positions. It's a cruel, torturous process but now is not the time to lose hope...
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coping is hard work
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Post by coping is hard work on Oct 31, 2023 11:20:53 GMT -5
Just keep in mind that for any colleagues you have receiving Zoom or campus invites, there are several of us who are like you, receiving little or no attention from committees. It sucks, but it's really not a reflection of who you are as a researcher, an educator, or as a person. You can do everything perfectly and still not get a job.
My coping strategy is semi-isolation: I'm not on Twitter, have minimal contact with other colleagues on the market. (It also helps that I follow a different path compared to most of them, they would apply to R1s and I go for small liberal arts institutions). It sounds dysfunctional, but it is working for me. The alternative is to develop the resilience to engage with people and get their updates (and give them your updates) and not let that ruin your day, and as great as that sounds, I don't have the resources to develop that kind of resilience right now. So I turn my house into a cozy cocoon to hide from it all. I work as much as possible, submit my applications, and then do something else like crafts or reading crime novels.
Take care of yourself, you're really not alone in feeling the way you feel.
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