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Post by new tt prof on Feb 11, 2012 20:59:03 GMT -5
I recently accepted a tenure-track position at a medium-sized public university. I start this fall. When I interviewed, I asked in a couple meetings about tenure requirements/expectations, but got fairly vague answers. The department chair mentioned to me on the phone after I took the job that he thinks I could conceivably go up for tenure early (this is not an R1 and I've been pretty productive in grad school).
I'm feeling a bit frustrated about how little I know of what will be expected of me. Is it reasonable to ask for some more firm details? Or should I just wait until I get there?
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Post by Mandy on Feb 11, 2012 21:26:10 GMT -5
Since you have already accepted the position, and are self-admittedly well published, I see no reason to not wait until you get there. With the upcoming move, you have other more immediately pressing matters you could be worrying about.
Moreover, tenure requirements are not always a perfect mathematical formula.
Congrats on what sounds like a good position.
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Post by anony on Feb 12, 2012 17:36:19 GMT -5
You can also get a fairly good idea by looking at the CVs of the last 3-4 tenured associates. I say 3-4 because each case can be unique; but if you try to average over several people you'll probably get a good idea. Things to look for - not just pubs, and where those pubs are - but also grants and service. I'm doubting teaching will count for much. ;-)
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Post by sameboat on Feb 12, 2012 21:01:09 GMT -5
Congrats! I thought of shortening the clock, but decided to under-promise and over-perform.
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Post by new tt prof on Feb 12, 2012 21:20:07 GMT -5
Thanks, everybody. OP here. anony, it's not quite that simple. It's a fairly small department, and most of the senior faculty are kind of "teaching" faculty. They carry fairly heavy course loads. The university has grown tremendously, and it's trying to become more of a research university. Newer faculty have lower teaching loads and more research expectations.
I was also surprised to find out recently that one of the assistant professors had his tenure app rejected. So, I'm not sure what implications that holds for me, if any.
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Post by veteran on Feb 12, 2012 21:34:37 GMT -5
There should be some sort of official, written tenure and promotion guidelines, whether at the university, college, or department level or any combination thereof. If the department chair is being obtuse, try contacting the college dean's office. As other posters have mentioned, these written guidelines may be "vague" but they should give you some idea of what is required, especially with respect to the balance between teaching and research.
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Post by anony on Feb 13, 2012 11:25:25 GMT -5
New tt prof -
I had a similar experience - got a tt job (a couple of years ago) at a medium sized school with mostly "older" tenured faculty (in fact, no one had been tenured in nearly a decade b/c of funding issues/hiring freezes mainly) that is trying to move from being a teaching school to a research school. They gave me vague answers and a lot of statements to the effect of "don't worry, you'll be fine!", but the requirements finally were pinned down last year in a formal re-do of department guidelines. (BTW, the requirements are fairly formidable, numerically, at my school now - 10+ articles _or_ a book and 3+ articles, plus teaching and service - BUT where I publish isn't all that important so long as it's peer-reviewed. Sigh - nothing like quantity over quality, eh?)
The long and the short of it: (1) looking at previously tenured folks was worthless for me and (2) making the dept. hand over something in writing is probably best. Hope this helps and good luck!
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Post by also on Feb 13, 2012 11:28:40 GMT -5
If there was a faculty member who recently went through the process, even if they were denied, the chair should have a good idea of what it currently takes to get tenure.
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Post by silentbub on Feb 13, 2012 21:08:27 GMT -5
New tt prof - I had a similar experience - got a tt job (a couple of years ago) at a medium sized school with mostly "older" tenured faculty (in fact, no one had been tenured in nearly a decade b/c of funding issues/hiring freezes mainly) that is trying to move from being a teaching school to a research school. They gave me vague answers and a lot of statements to the effect of "don't worry, you'll be fine!", but the requirements finally were pinned down last year in a formal re-do of department guidelines. (BTW, the requirements are fairly formidable, numerically, at my school now - 10+ articles _or_ a book and 3+ articles, plus teaching and service - BUT where I publish isn't all that important so long as it's peer-reviewed. Sigh - nothing like quantity over quality, eh?) The long and the short of it: (1) looking at previously tenured folks was worthless for me and (2) making the dept. hand over something in writing is probably best. Hope this helps and good luck! It is highly unlikely that a department will give you something concrete in writing. They'll likely give you some "goals" to shoot for but that's about it. The tenure process is a bit complicated at some institutions due to college/university politics. |
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Post by guest123 on Feb 14, 2012 12:50:08 GMT -5
re: not giving out tenure requirements in writing
In the face of litigation for unlawful dismissal of faculty, departments (generally) must have some sort of written protocol for tenure and promotion. Departments and universities face legal risks if they do not have such regulations codified. That said, the tenure requirements could still be vaguely written, and/or a new faculty member may not be provided with them until after s/he has signed on the dotted line.
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Post by they have to exist on Feb 14, 2012 17:01:46 GMT -5
New tt prof - I had a similar experience - got a tt job (a couple of years ago) at a medium sized school with mostly "older" tenured faculty (in fact, no one had been tenured in nearly a decade b/c of funding issues/hiring freezes mainly) that is trying to move from being a teaching school to a research school. They gave me vague answers and a lot of statements to the effect of "don't worry, you'll be fine!", but the requirements finally were pinned down last year in a formal re-do of department guidelines. (BTW, the requirements are fairly formidable, numerically, at my school now - 10+ articles _or_ a book and 3+ articles, plus teaching and service - BUT where I publish isn't all that important so long as it's peer-reviewed. Sigh - nothing like quantity over quality, eh?) The long and the short of it: (1) looking at previously tenured folks was worthless for me and (2) making the dept. hand over something in writing is probably best. Hope this helps and good luck! It is highly unlikely that a department will give you something concrete in writing. They'll likely give you some "goals" to shoot for but that's about it. The tenure process is a bit complicated at some institutions due to college/university politics. If you can't get something in writing, you are in the wrong department. There is nothing stunning about the practice of disclosing tenure expectations with the caveat that they are broad guidelines rather than a clear checklist. Ask for the guidelines, and if they are denied to you, hit the market again in the fall. |
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Post by maybe on Feb 14, 2012 19:01:42 GMT -5
If you can't get something in writing, you are in the wrong department. There is nothing stunning about the practice of disclosing tenure expectations with the caveat that they are broad guidelines rather than a clear checklist. Ask for the guidelines, and if they are denied to you, hit the market again in the fall. Don't be surprised if those 'guidelines' state something like "No rating of less than 'Very Good' in any category (Service, Teaching, Research), with a rating of Excellent in either Research or Teaching." Universities/Colleges/Departments have very little incentive to make the tenure guidelines concrete, since there are so many variables to account for even within the same department (books vs. articles vs. editing books vs. teaching intro courses vs. teaching grad courses vs. national service positions vs. university service etc. etc. etc. ). I would recommend just asking some of the Associate Professors what you should be doing each year to be fairly 'safe' (e.g., "Shoot for 1 top tier article plus something else peer reviewed, 'good' or better teaching evals, service on at least one university level committee pre tenure, and service on a department committee every other year"). They have much less to lose since their answers are not legally binding. |
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Post by silentbub on Feb 14, 2012 20:04:56 GMT -5
It is highly unlikely that a department will give you something concrete in writing. They'll likely give you some "goals" to shoot for but that's about it. The tenure process is a bit complicated at some institutions due to college/university politics. If you can't get something in writing, you are in the wrong department. There is nothing stunning about the practice of disclosing tenure expectations with the caveat that they are broad guidelines rather than a clear checklist. Ask for the guidelines, and if they are denied to you, hit the market again in the fall. If you are talking "guidelines", you'll be able to get those in writing since they are a part of faculty statutes/codes (these are usually available online). However, don't expect anything close to a "checklist". As guest123 pointed out, one of the reasons for this is to avoid lawsuits. I've been at two different institutions and both list areas in which you are supposed to achieve (e.g., teaching, research/scholarly activity, service) - and yes, the language is as vague as how I state it here. However, what I received verbally is not what I received in writing. The verbal stuff was a lot more specific. Both times I was on the job market, absolutely no institution I interviewed at would give me something specific in writing. This is not to say that all institutions are like this. I've heard of some institutions having very clear faculty statutes/codes or contract agreements. However, I've heard from friends and colleagues that clear faculty statutes/codes are more common on campuses where faculty are unionized, and many institutions do not have unions for their faculty. It sucks but if you want a job at my current or past institution, you'll have to take a leap of faith and trust what the chair or dean tells you. |
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