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Post by lonely on Sept 18, 2011 21:00:05 GMT -5
For the single individual's just off the job market, or for those who will be in the near future, have you given much thought about dating? I was very lucky to get a great two-year post-doc last cycle, so I'm only keeping an eye on this year's job market. Yet, I'm now trying to think about dating in a post-dissertation, post-degree world. All of my colleagues are married (most with children). I'm trying the online thing, but it seems somewhat fruitless. Maybe I'm too picky, but ideally, I'd like to share my life with another academic (not necessarily a sociologist). Did not finding a partner in grad school ruin my chances of finding a scholarly life-mate?
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Post by great question on Sept 18, 2011 22:12:19 GMT -5
I totally get that and have wondered the same thing. I'm divorced and have a child, but feel the same way wondering about the post-degree, post-job market world out there. I too would like to partner with an academic or as close to it as possible. Online dating is great way to meet people-on-paper, but the dissonance between the person-on-paper and the person-in-person has been too weird. You can not feel out energy through a computer screen, no matter how crafty the words and sexy the brains. There really should be a place for academic singles to mingle. Of course the rhyming of such an event might keep most of us away on account of cheese. ;D
An ironic aside, my security code for this was "bitter end" - that is not too promising! hahaha
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Post by thoughts on Sept 18, 2011 22:28:06 GMT -5
A word of caution - as someone on the job market and married to another sociologist - you would be better served to wait until you get a permanent job to find an academic mate. Trying to find jobs together in this market is seemingly impossible! Oh, the sacrifices we make! But, if you aren't deterred, my school offers "speed dating" for graduate students - check and see if they offer this at your school and if post-docs can join in!
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Post by 1713 on Sept 18, 2011 22:36:31 GMT -5
I was single through most of grad school and my postdoc. I was pretty set on meeting someone with a similar academic background and used that to cross off potential dates. Turns out that it really limited me. I'd quickly dismiss folks without giving them a chance. Luckily, I am very involved with hobbies outside of academia that introduces me to new people all the time. I originally thought I'd never find a potential partner in that realm because of my political leanings and academic concentration. However, I've found a person who is an amazing fit and extremely interested in my work while not having background in the area and no graduate degree. It's actually a nice outlet when I don't want to think about work all the time. I had to open myself up to all possibilities out there and have been extremely happy with doing so. So, whether you do it via online (I've had several friends find partners this way) or person-to-person, my biggest advice is to be open to whomever they may be and not restrict yourself to looking for another academic. Read more: socjobs.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=offtopic&thread=310&page=1#ixzz1YMkGJQbM
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Post by a friend on Sept 18, 2011 23:16:01 GMT -5
I have a close friend that was married through grad school and is still married (now has a job) but the couple (male/female) had been looking for a third (female) since before grad school. They thought, "eh, too busy during grad school to date" but now it's more like, "gotta watch who I tell in case it might affect whether I can keep my job." Although you'd think that other sociologists should be accepting of this "alternative lifestyle", I'm guessing average people would be less judgmental. There is so much baggage (expectations) that comes with being a highly educated sociologist, so sometimes it's easier to date "average" people. Yet, you want to avoid the "average" idiot that will annoy the heck out of you. I have another friend that married into a family of conservatives out of desperation...it's kind of funny to hear her complain ;D
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Post by countyourselflucky on Sept 19, 2011 5:08:02 GMT -5
OP: Count yourself lucky to not be attached to an academic at this point in your career.
Speaking from experience, A relationship between two career academics is a tough row to hoe. Beyond the ridiculously hard task of finding two jobs in the same place that both of you can actually stand (either the job itself or the location), there is the very high likelihood that one of you will end up making significant career sacrifices. The odds that each of you will be of more or less equal stature in your fields is unlikely. One person's career almost always ends up driving the bus (either the star or the laggard). While that is not exclusive to academic couples, the labor market in academia is much more constrained than in other areas.
That can create all kinds of issues of status and resentment, especially if career sacrifices are made.
What if one gets denied tenure? Or more likely one becomes a rock star while the other is much less movable?
Even if by some miracle you both end up with successful careers, then you can essentially become stuck where you are as finding a new place that is equally good/appropriate/acceptable for each of you can become a be really difficult.
I suggest you find your self a nice portable life mate (accountant, lawyer, IT, heir/heiress etc.).
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Post by annoying on Sept 19, 2011 9:10:00 GMT -5
I had no idea people in academia wanted to date other academics so badly. Why? Just take a moment to look deep into the most egotistical part of your soul. Do you really want to be surrounded by more of THAT? (For the record, I'm joking -- sort of. I like other academics, but would never want to date one.)
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Post by like minded on Sept 19, 2011 9:42:20 GMT -5
I think it's more about finding a like-minded individual. It's hard to train someone to "get you" and can get especially frustrating when trying to explain your point of view without schooling them (especially when they don't want to be "schooled").
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yep
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by yep on Sept 19, 2011 11:24:16 GMT -5
As an additional selection criteria, you either want someone who is equally busy and invested in their career, or you want someone who is 9-5 (or SAH) and can help out on the home front, but expects you to be busy. God help you if they pick you thinking you'll be flex spouse - that's a foundation for disappointment, whereas someone not as busy will wonder why you're never home to spend time with them.
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Post by annon on Sept 19, 2011 12:07:41 GMT -5
Hmmm. So far, it seems like people are looking for others who are not "average," but are willing to work the second shift, put up with abscence, and "get" you without much emotional work on your part. This does not sound to me like a blueprint for a succesful relationship. Maybe we need to rethink this life-work balance thing.
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Post by Faculty Family on Sept 27, 2011 18:47:46 GMT -5
As someone who's been married to another professor for a long time, here are some points about dating or marrying another academic. We were able to both get tenured jobs in the same large city -- hard to do nowadays except in the major metropolitan areas. Advantages of academic partnerships: partner understands your life style, has interesting advice and gossip from his/her own department or university, can be helpful as critic or co-author if your fields are at all related, may be able to provide health coverage and other benefits for you and kids (or be double covered!), and will be comfortable as you move in a social network of other faculty couples and friends. If you're about the same age or career stage, then you may both be working hard for tenure at the same time, and neither will be the abandoned, bored non-academic who wants to interrupt your work frenzy. If you have kids, they will have the general advantage (for upward mobility) of having two academically savvy, well-educated parents.
Disadvantages: being less mobile if only one of you gets a better opportunity elsewhere; domestic morale problems if only one of you decides academic is a bad choice; possible envy if one of you is notably more successful than the other, and the weaker partner fumes or sulks (instead of basking in reflected glory). Faculty salaries aren't great, so you may regret not pairing up with a better-paid professional. Finally, if you break up or divorce, it will be hard to get away from people who knew you as a couple, or who take one partner's side over the other; you and your ex will likely move in the same social network as before. But who plans for breakup or divorce?!
Overall, I've found it's best to be with someone who can be an adviser, co-author, and patient companion with an understanding of my career and workplace. I've noticed that there are quite a few academic couples in our universities, sometimes from egalitarian grad school matchups, and sometimes from "notorious" mentor-junior relationships.
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Post by all is not lost on Sept 28, 2011 5:56:49 GMT -5
I'm married to another sociologist, who I met in grad school, and the arrangement has worked for us. There have been sacrifices and bouts of jealousy, for sure, but these are minor in comparison to the benefits.
More importantly for the OP, though... all is not lost. I would factor this into your consideration if you have more than one job offer, though. Some schools are more likely to have a high proportion of married faculty (e.g., BYU, Notre Dame) and some cities not only have more single faculty, but simply more faculty to choose from. I know a number of academic couples who met after taking a tt-job. More common (at my institution, at least) are people who end up with another person from the university who might not be a faculty member (e.g., an adviser, administrator, research faculty). They have a better sense of faculty culture than an outsider and value higher education, but are sometimes more flexibility in movement, hours, etc.
I will say that it appears to be MUCH harder for single women than men to find an academic partner post grad school. It's not impossible, but so many of the men got married in (or before) grad school and so many of the women either never did or got divorced during that same period. There's a gross imbalance in availables, with many more single women than men.
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Post by Late to the game on Oct 24, 2011 18:56:12 GMT -5
I'm late to the game, so I don't know if the OP will see this at all, but I wanted to add my two cents just in case.
I'm starting my second year of a two year postdoc, and I was in your position last year. Shortly after starting my postdoc, I broke up with my partner of three years (also in academia, but a biologist) after failing miserably at trying to do a long distance relationship. I felt really hopeless being in a new place (and not a huge city) without many easy ways to meet someone. I ended up trying out online dating (OKCupid) and was pretty turned off by it. I had pretty much given up on it after a ton of messages from weirdos and a short unsatisfying relationship with a math grad student who I met off of it. I even took my picture down (seriously cut down on the message flow), but then I ended up getting a message from my now-boyfriend. He's not in academia, and honestly, I feel so incredibly lucky every single day to have met him. This is by far the best relationship that I've ever been in (granted, we've only been dating 8 months), and I honestly think that he is perfect for me (almost to a scary degree). We haven't even had an argument yet.
It doesn't matter that he's not in academia. We still have interesting conversations about our respective fields, and I guess I don't really like talking about sociology after working on it all day anyway (my personal preference). I'd rather talk about politics or current events or something stupid I saw on the internet. We have so much fun together. Moreover, I'm on the job market right now, and it is so terrible as it is, I can't imagine how awful it would be to have to try to find two jobs in one place.
However, as a postdoc, it does create a special challenge because you're not going to stay there very long. Knowing that I'll likely move soon (well, I really, really hope I get a job) is creating a lot of anxiety and stress regarding my relationship. I'm hoping to get a job in a city about an hour away (and where my BF has an outstanding job offer) or a job in a city decent enough that he'd want to move there with me. He is a computer engineer, and I like dating someone who basically can get a job in any city (unlike me). But it certainly isn't a given that he'd be willing to give up a great job and proximity to all of his friends and family to move...so it just adds another thing to stress about. Honestly, I don't think that I've ever been so stressed out in my life, especially because I haven't been having much luck on the job market.
Takeaway points: Don't limit yourself to academics. I've been on both sides, and I'm the happiest with the non-academic because we're a better fit in all other ways. This will severely limit the dating pool if you do. Be persistent with internet dating. Don't get too discouraged too quickly. There is a wide range of people doing online dating these days. However, I would say move fairly quickly to meet in person; don't message for months in case you don't have chemistry in person as it gets to be fairly time-consuming.
Good luck!
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Post by Lonely OP on Oct 26, 2011 12:24:41 GMT -5
I'm the original poster of the thread. Thank you for all of your insight. And thank you for sharing your success stories--they give me hope!
There are both potential pros and cons to dating an academic, and I don't plan to limit my search in any way. I'm a woman, and as I get older and more educated, I can feel my dating pool shrink--age and education (or employment) aren't deal breakers for me, but...it, at least, feels like I'm more limited.
I think the more difficult transition for me has been trying to meet people to spend time with outside of work and research more generally. I haven't met any other single younger academics. It's slowly getting better, but I still currently dread the weekends because the office is empty and that's my only real social interaction.
We spend so much time trying to get a job, but I feel like we never talk about the personal implications of getting a job such as leaving grad school and moving to a new place.
P.S. I have to point out that the random apostrophe in my original post has been driving me crazy. I know this stuff isn't scholarly writing, but jeez!
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Post by take care on Oct 26, 2011 13:17:02 GMT -5
I think the more difficult transition for me has been trying to meet people to spend time with outside of work and research more generally. I haven't met any other single younger academics. All the single young academics I know are women. But I've also seen two of them get married in the last year, though neither husband is an academic. I do think you're limiting yourself unnecessarily if you are only looking at academics (which you suggested you preferred in your original post). What was the study that was released a few years ago about dating and mating? It got a lot of attention in the popular media at the time. I recall the major finding being that most people met their mates through friends. It can be hard to develop and maintain friendships as an academic, since we often have to relocate after grad school or postdoc, but maybe you can put your friends to work for you - share the workload of meeting potential dates. ;D
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