|
Post by fendi on Oct 26, 2011 11:26:59 GMT -5
They have the money, and it is a situation that I could be happy with. I just legitimately require a higher salary than they have offered prior new assistants (sole breadwinner, children, etc.) Well, we would all like higher salaries, so there may be ill will if the other assistant professors find out how much more you are being offered than they were. It's the old "family wage system" rearing its head. The Supreme Court recently dealt with a case like this - a manager at Wal-Mart gave one employee a higher salary than another, justifying it by saying he had a family to support: "Odle discovered that a male assistant manager at a previous Sam’s Club where she worked had been earning $23,000 more a year than she was. When she complained, she said, the district manager responded, “Stephanie, that assistant manager has a family and two children to support.”" (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/business/26walmart.html?pagewanted=all) Anyway, some universities have committees tasked with preventing or resolving salary compression, etc.
|
|
rrr
Full Member
Posts: 113
|
Post by rrr on Oct 26, 2011 11:34:20 GMT -5
Yes, I also agree that the family issue is not a valid negotiating chip in the USA. Of course it is a valid personal reason, but for negotiating, you should be bringing up salary ranges, what other positions at similar schools would pay, research support you will need for publishing, and so forth. Those are valid negotiating points.
If you turn them down, you might use the "family to support" excuse as a way of kindly declining their offer. But I wouldn't use it for negotiating, since it would not be seen as a valid excuse.
Fendi, there is a well known phenomena of salary inversion in high-demand academic disciplines, where new professors are paid more than tenured faculty.
|
|
|
Post by guest321 on Oct 26, 2011 11:52:01 GMT -5
A. Yes, several weeks. They seem to understand my situation. B. No "Do this!" is often just a transformation of "I would do this!", and since the decision impacts you greatly and me not at all, I won't offer that perspective. What I will say, though, is that every decision has a best-case and worst-case scenario. While we typically decide on matters in anticipation of best-case outcomes, I suggest you consider which worst-case result you can best live with. If the alternative to taking the job is no subsequent opportunities and lack of placement this year, are you fine with this? Conversely, if the alternative to turning down the job is accepting the position and then realizing that you are a candidate for a more desirable one later on, can you live with this? The comparison is really between these two results, and you need not prefer either, but you will eventually have to decide which one is most acceptable to you.
|
|
|
Post by fast mover on Oct 26, 2011 11:58:26 GMT -5
Guest - Your great advice is well written and has hit its mark. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by unclekarl on Oct 28, 2011 12:18:07 GMT -5
Can you obtain data on wages for similar universities, including those of similar rank and in the area. ASA reports those salaries annually. I have an acquaintance who was offered $45k as firm, but he eventually negotiated a higher salary by using ASA data to argue that they should pay him the *median* salary for their type of position a) to be competitive and b) to signal that they view him as a competitive candidate.
|
|
rrr
Full Member
Posts: 113
|
Post by rrr on Oct 28, 2011 12:26:39 GMT -5
Ooh, "competitive candidate" that's a good point.
|
|
|
Post by showmethemoney on Oct 30, 2011 9:51:33 GMT -5
A few points: 1) Is the salary they are offering the prevailing market wage for someone with your accomplishments/standing? Just because it is less that you expect/think you need doesn't necessarily mean it is less than the market will bear for your services. If I were you I would talk to as many recent grads from your department or others who can give you insight into what salaries are like for people with CVs that look like yours. When I was on the market several years ago, I had several close friends who had similar CVs and we all seemed to be interviewing at overlapping places. We all compared notes on our offers and used that information to maximize our outcomes. The point is you need to have a handle on what your market worth is.
2) One argument you can make is that because they are asking you to forgo all other potential offers very early in the process they should pay a premium for it.
3) how risk averse are you?
4) also the "if you pay me $XX,000 if will accept the position" can and does work in a position like this.
5) salary compression/inequality in the department is their problem not yours. Obviously you need to have a good relationship with your future colleagues but at the end of the day it isn't your job to accept an below market salary just to make everyone else happy. Of course whether the salary is indeed below market is not clear.
|
|
|
Post by facts on Oct 30, 2011 9:54:37 GMT -5
Another way to find out salaries is, you know, to look them up. People on this board seem unaware that salary information for public universities is readily available for most states.
|
|
|
Post by unclekarl on Oct 30, 2011 13:45:42 GMT -5
Good point, facts! And if interviewing at a private university, one can look up salaries at nearby state schools. Its very reasonable to ask for at least the salary paid by those institutions.
|
|
|
Post by fast mover on Oct 31, 2011 10:58:49 GMT -5
facts - My expected salary is based on the salaries of students placed by my department within the last two years. I am universally considered to be of equal or greater desireability by those same students and the professors in the department. My expectations are not based on my economic analysis of what I "need" or want.
It is a private institution, so no public salary figures and the other universities in the state are either also private or incomparable (R1s). The only precedence I have stats on is the average salary of candidates produced by my program.
I am normally a risk seeker, but the presence of dependents has tilted my disposition in favor of risk-averseness (if that's a word).
You all are wonderful for sharing your advice and experience in this conversation. I hope that other lurkers are gaining insight as well.
|
|
|
Post by Tenured on Nov 6, 2011 20:38:29 GMT -5
There's no way that they'll give you a higher salary based on your needs. It never happens, especially in this market. You can delay responding a couple of weeks at most.
|
|
|
Post by Tenured on Nov 6, 2011 21:52:18 GMT -5
facts - My expected salary is based on the salaries of students placed by my department within the last two years. Academic markets are local, so the salaries of grads of your program have no bearing whatsoever. One thing you can do is check the index that shows local prices (COL.) That may make the offered salary more (or less) attractive .
|
|
|
Post by run the gauntlet on Nov 7, 2011 9:48:07 GMT -5
facts - My expected salary is based on the salaries of students placed by my department within the last two years. I am universally considered to be of equal or greater desireability by those same students and the professors in the department. My expectations are not based on my economic analysis of what I "need" or want. Just quoting you earlier here: "I just legitimately require a higher salary than they have offered prior new assistants (sole breadwinner, children, etc.)" You make it sound like it is a need. Need won't fly. Also, as Tenured said, salaries are local - you cannot compare the offered salary in, say, El Paso to that which someone in your program received in New York City or Portland. Cost of living calculator is your friend here.
|
|
|
Post by fast mover on Nov 7, 2011 10:04:19 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
I am not saying that the current offer should pay more because of my needs. I'm saying that I might need to turn this one down and wade into uncertainty because I am going to need a higher income.
Secondly, I understand the differences in cost of living. I am talking about others from my program in places with similar cost of living or in the same geographical area. I'm not completely out of touch with reality. I realize that the 50k in DC is not the same as 50k in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
Besides, I think I have decided to decline the offer and take my chances with better opportunities. It is definitely a scary decision to turn down sure income for not so sure prospects.
|
|